It was suggested that I ought to organize a real life religious discussion group and, oh, how I'd like to. It'd be way awesome! Until the disciplinary committee convenes to discuss the excommunication of dear Sister Roth, I'm sure. If only I were smarter, better, or had a drop of follow through. As I was mulling the idea around, I had the image of a sort of Mormon's Anonymous meeting. (There is a website of that name, but reading it merely made me feel even more certain that I am unqualified to lead anything ever and will probably burn in hell, blind.)*****
Welcome to the first virtual meeting of Mormon's Anonymous. So glad you could stop by.
These meetings are designed to help those addicted to the Mormon church control the negative consequences of their addiction. Here, we can feel free to vent our cognitive dissonance (like how we feel guilty about not getting our visiting teaching done when we haven't been visited for years); explore radical interpretations of scripture (Jesus turning water to wine, not grape juice, for example); and joke about how much we'd really like to have a second wife in the house (or husband, dangit).
Since I'm the only one here, I'll just stand up and tell you why I'm here.
My name is Brandy, and I am addicted to Mormonism. (hi brandy)
I was born into the church. My family lived with my paternal grandmother, who saw to my religious instruction. After her passing, when I was 12 years old, my parents became practicing Wiccans. For reals. Oh, the debauchery. Shortly thereafter, as I was reading the Joseph Smith Story, and had an overwhelming feeling of certainty that this experience was true. To this day, I don't know if God the Father and Jesus Christ physically appeared, or if it was merely a vision in Smith's head ... but I do feel confident that Joseph was called by God to be a prophet, given priesthood authority, and that he restored The Church of Jesus Christ to the Earth.
Throughout my adolescence, I maintained a loose connection to the Church. I rarely attended Sunday meetings or weekly youth activities, but I did go to LDS seminary at school. When I went away to Iowa for college, there were only 6 Mormon students. I was not a very good example of my faith at that time. One year later, I transferred to BYU to be with my fiance (now husband). Again, during that time in my life, I was not the best example of my faith. I was married civilly at age 20, and 15 months later, husband and I took out our endowments and had our marriage sealed in the temple.
I suppose it was during my preparation to initially go to the temple that I became addicted .. ahem ... converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I am drawn to the logic and structure. Rare is the answer, "I don't know why, that's just how it is." I like answers, I like being told I can find the answers myself. Also, the idea that I am entitled to personal revelation and that God still speaks to those who listen (through a prophet) satisfies my need for individuality AND hierarchy. Plus patterns - if God is God, He does things His way and it's the best way and it doesn't change. The ordinance of Baptism by immersion, rather than sprinkles, fills my need for literal application of the Bible, while the understanding that the world was NOT made in 6, 24 hour periods, satisfies my love and understanding of scientifically sound principles. I love that, for the most part, I can say "evolution" and not be crucified.
But the church takes itself too seriously. It's as if, as a whole, we sense a fragility and we all walk on egg shells, trying to ignore certain things. Even as I type this, I feel disloyal. Don't think too much, child. I could list a dozen no-no topics. WHY can't we talk about [insert your favorite LDS myth or legend]? Why are some of the most intelligent people I went to seminary with, no longer active members?
The doctrine of the church REQUIRES, got that, REQUIRES each member to gain their own knowledge and testimony of every aspect of church. It requires us to acknowledge our freedom to choose, our duty to ponder, and, I feel, our right to question and doubt. And when we still choose to be obedient, even when we are struggling, that is Faith.
No religion holds up to intense scrutiny. We just can't produce tangible evidence to support our feelings. It's fine. I don't expect everyone to come to the same conclusions I have. I TOOK A LOT OF TIME GETTING HERE. And I am lost.
We apologize too much. Don't want to offend anyone ... they serve coffee to VISITORS at BYU, but students have smuggle it in. Why do we let ourselves believe cold caffeine is superior to hot caffeine? Why force hypocrisy? Do you REALLY think God cares if drink diet coke or espresso? Does He? DOES HE?! ANSWER ME!!!!
(deep breath) (and another)
Thank you so much for coming. If I'm not excommunicated, maybe we can do this again. Feel free to share your experiences, anonymously if necessary. Who am I to judge?
Not all of us take it too seriously. But those of us who laugh ... I fear for our eternal souls.
14 Brilliant Bits of Inspiration:
Hi,
My name is Lori and I am addicted(mostly) to being LDS.
If someone asked me what I am, I would say LDS before identifying gender, nationality, family name, etc.
I, too, was born into the church. Out in the mission field- Pennsylvania. My mother was a mostly active member, my father a non baptized, smoking member. My mom got fed up and went on Sept 30th, 1989 to get her endowments. My dad drove her to DC because he didnt trust her not to get lost:)Something in those 3 hours alone in the car changed him.
The next day he gave up smoking and that sunday he got baptized. We were sealed on Oct. 1, 1990.
I attended early morning seminary, for 4 years, was active all throughout high school and went to BYU-I for two years before putting in my mission papers.
My mission is what saved me.
Before my mission I don't think I even really believed in God. I thought of Him as more of a mythological being.
I thought of Joseph Smith as a half used car salesman/ half possible child molester.
I have never told anyone that before.
The MTC was my "three hours alone in the van" experience. It changed me. I could FEEL my Heavenly Fathers love. I could SEE my prayers being answered. It was unreal. I also grew to love and accept Joseph Smith. Even though I still think some of his personal choices were wrong.
The mission is the hardest thing I have ever done. My brother in law always says that the mission is the 'best kept secret' of the church.
Its rewarding and amazing and fun and it teaches you SO much..but its mostly hours of endless, thankless toil.
I havent really been to Relief Society in years. If I dont have a calling that takes me away from it, I leave church early.
I hate it.
I hate that everyone is trying to 'out righteous' everyone else. I hate the tacky decorations and the tears. I wish we could just be real. Not irreverent, just real.
I have alot more to say. This was just kind of a mindless rant.
Am I crazy?
You're hilarious and I love you.
Welcome Brandy
Welcome Lori Ann
Hi,
My name is Chris. I'm not sure what my position is on the church right now. Whether I like it or not it will always be a huge factor in identifying who I am and where I have come from.
I am directly related to early Mormon polygamous settlers in the Salt Lake Valley. Most of my family and my in-laws are incredibly absolutist and Orthodox in their LDS beliefs (Utah Mormons). For this reason it is important to remain on good terms with the church.
I did not have a good experience growing up in the church. The boundaries of my Ward as a child contained very wealthy members as well as lower-middle class members. My family was the latter. Most of my peers were very rude and made sure that I always felt like an odd outsider.
My church experience was more like mandatory school but the story of Joseph Smith sunk deep even then and I prayed frequently on my own in private. I had many very powerful experiences that created a testimony of the principles of the gospel even though I always resented attending the actual church services.
When I went on a mission to the Philippines I was incredibly idealistic and passionate. Before I left, I broke up with my girlfriend (now wife)because of her distracting "worldy ways" (I didn't realize that she was really awesome as hell) so that I could be entirely dedicated to serving the lord. I thought that was the attitude the lord wanted to see.
My mission was amazing because of the cultural education I received as well as the opportunity to serve other people selflessly. But I also had several experiences that created cognitive dissonance within me. I became confused about inconsistency in my message. I interacted with many people of different faiths and sometimes thought they were demonstrating more Christ-like attitudes than we were. What was I really teaching these good people? Why did I think I had to teach them and not learn from them?
Immediately when I returned from my mission I began an intense study into Religion. I studied all faiths and critically compared them. Over the years I became more and more driven to approach the subject of religion from all angles. I really wanted answers. I studied the origins of Judaism and Christianity. I studied Eastern religion (and fell in love with much of it). I also studied the history of my own church ( and not out of church manuals).
I am still addicted to learning and am reading book after book on the subject. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I actually "know". This has caused great conflict because currently the church is creating a lot of pressure to express great conviction even if it is not genuine.
I do not have this conviction and am uncomfortable saying things I don't believe. I feel I am supposed to think that I am sinning for not being more committed in my beliefs. I am an active member of the church but I stress out about what I'm going to say to conclude a home teaching lesson. It almost makes me want to quit my involvement so that I will not have to worry about callings and how inappropriate they are for me.
As a man in the church admitting your doubts is incredibly difficult. There is a lot to lose. The men are expected to receive revelation from the lord for the family.Women are made to think that their family situation is weakened by an unconvincing priesthood holder at it's head.
I honestly think Buddhism has a much healthier way of approaching problems than our church in many ways. After being profoundly effected by Eastern teachings I am offended at the notion that we are only "adding" to everyone else's beliefs without having anything to learn. This is incredibly arrogant.
What I am most frustrated with is how much mainstream Mormons lack perspective. They don't look outside the box and listen to what other people are saying.
I have heard a Taoist talk about their spiritual experience using the EXACT same words as Mormons describing the Holy Ghost. This spiritual experience was not pointing the Taoist in any way towards the person of Christ but rather confirmed to this individual the truths of Taoism. How do we know that what we feel (as Mormons) is not really just confirming the principles that overlap with Taosim and we are just distracted with the Christ figure? I do not think Mormons have special daily spiritual communion that the rest of the world lacks. The discussion on spiritual experience is larger than we may initially think.
Brandy, it sounds like you, as an outsider, recognized some of the great qualities of the church and came into it for that reason. For me the church is intertwined with everything I do, my relations with my family, my community, even my job before any personal exploration.
I am extremely frustrated at the lack of social freedom I am given to honestly explore my faith. I want the freedom to even reject it if need be without my family and friends believing that I have strayed or am somehow living a sinful life.
I share the LDS values but am not very convinced lately of the church's claims. I am ashamed of its actions against homosexuals. I am ashamed of its filtering and white-washing of its history. I am ashamed at many of its approaches to censorship and unhealthy attitudes toward sex. I guess I could go on for a while.
I don't know that the church is "true" (whatever that is supposed to mean) but I do think much of it is good. I want to see intellectual honesty from the members of this church. That is why I am attracted to your blog because I think your questions are actually quite healthy and I wish more people thought like you do.
I do feel bad though when you express guilt for honestly stating your concerns. why does god approve of guilt being used in this way? It is a very damaging aspect of the principle of faith. Do you think that this mortal test is to improve your moral character or to test your blind obedience? Can god really condemn a righteous person for never being truly convinced of its unprovable claims? To me the safest answer is to be a good person and extremely skeptical of extraordinay claims.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinay evidence"
Karl Sagen
This was WAAAY to long. I'm sorry. I won't ever hijack your blog again.
Hi, I'm Annie, and I try very hard not to be addicted to Mormons. This is difficult, since most of my favorite people carry that title.
Between my parents and eleven siblings, I am the ONLY one born into the church. Seven of my siblings are converts, two are apathetic, and one thinks we're all going to Hell. It makes family reunions kind of uncomfortable.
My extended non-Mormon family is horrified at our young marriages and multitude of children. We are, indeed peculiar to them.
We've lived in Utah for two and a half years, and I've decided that it's easier to be half Mormon here than in the mission field. No one really pays that much attention here.
I kind of miss the pressure.
And the disclaimer at the top isn't necessary, you are obviously smarter than most (smarter than me, but we both knew that already) and lead a rocking discussion.
Mormonism is the hot blog topic this week. I posted "Growing up Mormon" a few days ago and it covers a bunch of Mormony stuff, too.
In any religion as big and broad as Mormonism, there's bound to be lefties, middlers and right wingers. But we, being human, are full of contradictions and imperfections. For example, I'm a tattooed Primary President. I'm also a Returned Missionary who loves watching "R" movies. I love drinking Rock Star and read my Book of Mormon every day.
It may seem confusing to some, but that's just who we are...people who believe in the BoM, J. Smith, modern day prophets, and are trying to become better one day at a time.
HF loves us all. He doesn't care if we wear pants to church (I have) or leggings or flip flops. But people care, and there's the rub.
Hi there. I've been reading your blog for a while (found you through Lori Ann) and love it, but I've never commented.
This post brought me out of lurkdom. I needed it.
My name is Allison and I'm a Mormon. I don't know whether you'd call it an addiction, but I guess you might since that part of me isn't going to change. But I also really like what Chris had to say up there about other religions, particularly Eastern ones. Fascinating. I love religion in general and would love to skip church repeatedly to attend other denominations, just to experience it. But, you know, gotta be an example for the kids while they're still young. Of course, when they're older I'll probably skip church and bring them with me while we go see what it's like to be a Pentecostal or a Southern Baptist, or a Unitarian Universalist or a Jew. I feel pretty solid in my foundation, but I want to respect others' beliefs and have my children learn that respect, too.
And I've enjoyed the other comments, too. It's good to know there are others out there who struggle with the culture side of things. I feel like I have a firm testimony of what matters in the gospel, if that makes sense, but I'm fairly certain that there are a lot of things that a lot of Church members view as essential that really aren't all that. For example, I'm pretty sure I can be a better judge than the MPAA as to what is and is not appropriate for me to watch. And I'm pretty sure that nowhere in the scriptures or in any latter-day revelation does it say that you have to vote Republican to get to the Celestial Kingdom. I even let my kids have sleepovers!
I just feel like sometimes we as Church members tend to get so caught up in the minutae that we forget to focus on what really matters, which is loving your neighbor and living the best life you know how.
Anyway, I won't go on and on, especially since I'm not sure how much sense I'm making. I like seeing that I'm not alone, though :)
Hi, my name is Shannon, and I’m a fence sitter. I am neither hot nor cold and would therefore be spewed out of the Lord’s mouth I guess. I’ve been an active member most of my life with some periods of less-activity in college. However, I feel like I’ve been waiting for my “three hours in the car/A-ha! moment/ sacred grove/ whatever you want to call it for my whole life and it’s never come.
Here are a couple of things about me:
1. I like performing. I like having an audience. I don’t mind public speaking.
2. I am the most emotional person ever. I cry at the drop of the hat. If a teacher looked at me wrong in school I’d start crying uncontrollably. If I’m having even a kind of crappy day and someone asks me what’s wrong, bring on the flood gates! I view this as a huge weakness in me and I really hate it. But I haven’t yet learned to control it.
HOWEVER, when it comes to speaking in church or giving a lesson or sharing my testimony in any form I’m completely dry eyed. My whole life I have avoided speaking in church in any way shape or form because I thought that surely people would take my lack of tears as a huge indication that I lacked sincerity, conviction, and a testimony ,
I remember sitting in girls camp during testimony meeting trying to will myself to cry like the other girls and feeling relieved when I could muster up a tear or two.
Sometime in college I read about the gifts of the spirit in D&C where it talks about to some is giving the gift to KNOW that Christ lives (I’m loosely paraphrasing here) and to others is given the gift to rely on the testimony of others. When I read that I thought, ok, that explains it, that’s my gift- to rely on the testimony of others- and so for the longest time my parent’s strong conviction was enough for me. (It was enough even to help me faithfully serve a mission) And later it would be my husband’s conviction that I would rely on, but now that he is going through his own “crisis of faith” I feel completely lost. And it’s especially hard now that I have children because I don’t know how to raise them or instruct them.
The truth is, if I was to die tomorrow I would be more surprised than not to find out that any of this is true. And yet I live my life hoping that it is. You said it beautifully in one of your posts, “I'm still 50-50. Going with the whole, if it's not true, it doesn't matter, BUT, if it IS true, well wouldn't want to risk the opportunity to feel this way for time and all eternity.”
If I was to bare my testimony today this is more or less what I would say…
I know that this church is good. I hope that life and family relations really do continue after death. I hope that we have a Heavenly Father who really knows us and actually has a plan for us. I’m convinced that the principles taught in this church can help me live a happy and productive life.
Why wouldn’t it be ok for me to bare that kind of a testimony? Why does everyone seem to forget that faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things, it’s to HOPE for things that are not seen that are true?
Lori, I love how you said, “ I wish we could just be real. Not irreverent, just real.” That’s what I love about this blog and these comments they’re so real but not the least bit disrespectful.
Anyway, Brandy I can’t tell you just how special and unique you are. There’s something about your writing that I can’t quite put my finger on, but it’s just so unique and yet relatable. I really want to have you and your husband over for dinner sometime. We’re not scary. I promise.
And Lori, you can come too. I know you’re getting paid the big bucks as a social worker so round trip tickets from So. Carolina should be a piece of cake, right?
Brandy,
I totally vote for you to have dinner with Shannon and Chris. Not only was Shannon the most kick ass mission companion of all time, she and Chris are festive dinner companions. I went with them to the Mayan once and it pretty much changed my life:)
Sorry, don't want to hijack the comments or anything, but Shannon (hi, I lurk on your blog sometimes, too - Lori has knows some cool people), I had a thought while reading your testimony. I like how you say "I know the church is good." I always feel like I can't say "I know the church is true", but rather "I know the gospel is true", because there are a lot of things about the church as an organization that leave big questions marks in my brain, but the Gospel of Jesus Christ is something I feel like I can have complete faith in.
And I agree with you about hope, too. My hubby might possibly agree even more. We've had this conversation many times.
If I find a way to get to Utah, can I come to dinner, too?
Wow, I just found you through MMB and I LOVE your blog... I LOVE this!
I'm sorry, I don't have any confessions to make but if I think of any I'll post it anonymously, haha!
Your post through cracked me up! You know you are a good woman! Just try your best! :)
ah ha. Now I remember how I got to Teressa's blog! ;)
My name is Amy and I, too, have an LDS addiction. I covered most of what I struggle with in my response to Teressa's entry. (On my blog.) I love the church but I also struggle sometimes with feeling like it is REALLY me. It feels more like a jacket than my own skin. I WANT it to feel like me. But I haven't achieved it yet.
Ultimately I am feeling that religion---that CHURCH---itself isn't the point, but our relationship with Heavenly Father and Christ themselves. If I can strengthen that, I will be OK. Sometimes the LDS church helps to strengthen it. Sometimes it doesn't. But I will continue trying.
PS, thank you for the clarification on cold vs. hot caffeine. I can now enjoy certain illicit activities at McDonald's with much less guilt. It's cold. Definitely iced.
Hi Mrs. Roth. I disagree that you are unqualified to lead anything such as a Mormon's Anonymous meeting. I am the creator of the mormonsanonymous.org website and would very much like input and participation from good normal members of the church such as yourself. I want to talk about all sorts of stuff on that site, but thus far, I am the only participant and how can I talk about all of my weeknesses and sins when it is so easy for people to find out who I am if they diligently search. Perhaps I am the unqualified one here. I would be happy to make you an author on that site is you would like. I am simply trying to fight a lot of the negativity that exists out there on the church and add things that are more positive and helpful to people struggling with sin.
Post a Comment